The horrible mess that is EoP's current setting

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Re: The horrible mess that is EoP's current setting

Postby NekomimiRex » Tue Jun 09, 2015 5:50 am

The point is I do not think we need to overhaul the entire fucking RP to make other RPs which aren't even affected by the bloated hellmass that is the setting more palatable. Shit like the RP with Marisa's Arm that can be solved with just one other fucking magician doing magic bullshit shouldn't need a rework of the entire gameworld to find a fucking solution for.
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Re: The horrible mess that is EoP's current setting

Postby null » Tue Jun 09, 2015 5:55 am

@Neko

1. Your avatar hurts.

2. When we have this setting crap squared away, I swear to god I will do nothing but RP with you until the day I die if you just shut up. ( I'm exaggerating, but you get the point. )
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Re: The horrible mess that is EoP's current setting

Postby cxl » Tue Jun 09, 2015 12:53 pm

Okay, there's a lot of stuff here, so I'm going to go through and respond to what I feel needs responding.

Firefluff wrote:Exercising too much power in one place at one time would likely upset the balance, and so the angels often had to appear in much diminished forms than what they held elsewhere, keeping the strain on their environment to a minimum.

I propose that we instate something similar here, where the vastly powerful beings cannot always apply their full power, because the constraints of the world binds them to a certain degree. In other words, they're too powerful for the world they live in. Not only would this allow characters that have good reason to be powerful to remain so, it ensures that powerful characters can't just snap their fingers and do whatever they want.


Personally, I've tended to hold a similar idea, with a few small differences, when it comes to EoP's power scaling. The fact that very powerful characters are often such due to holding power over some kind of concept or abstract idea, means that free and excessive use of their power could easily have all kinds of unintended side effects. It's more of a soft-cap than anything else, but given that we only let the most trusted people play these kinds of hyperpowered characters, that should hopefully be enough.

To elaborate: As an example, changing gravity might seem like a cool and fun thing to do - until you realise that you've accidentally pretty much all planets and stars because they rely on gravity to hold themselves together.

Big uses of power like that must therefore be carefully considered, and safeguards need to be put in place in order to limit the effects to being what you want. It's just a few hoops to jump through, but it does provide an explanation as to why grand, sweeping gestures of power aren't performed every other day. (And the example I gave above was actually pretty minor, given that it only affected a physical constant. I don't even want to think about how badly one could botch reality by fucking with more esoteric concepts)

NekomimiRex wrote:I can agree heavily with the whole Outside World power scaling mess. The fact that I ~had~ to have Marisa lose an arm just to go outside the barrier is kind of ridiculous, as is the fact that the only way Outside World RP is interesting is if your character is on the top end of the power scale so that they're actually relevant. To that end, it forces the Outside World to also be a breeding ground for far-too-powerful characters that, if introduced to the Gensoukyou setting, would only be able to wreak massive havoc or cause fuckhuge changes that the Touhou setting doesn't need.


Firstly: The whole losing-an-arm business. That was very clearly a patch to deal with a mess of semi-retcons because I made the colossal fuckup of trusting Marine to GM something and she went full retard as a result. What probably /should/ have happened is that Marisa would've been detained in the outside world for a while, with the side effect that she would've gotten to meet a few different characters out there - you know, actual RP? But that whole thing ended up turning into a clusterfuck but it is what it is now.

Secondly: I still think you're making the mistake of thinking in terms of how everything in the setting relates to Gensoukyou specifically. Touhou hasn't been the primary setting of EoP for close to a year now, and the fact that it does in some way get treated as such causes many problems. Touhou /is/ going to see changes, because it needs to be reintegrated with the rest of the setting. And besides, it suffers from the exact same power scaling problems as the outside world - which is the exact kind of problem that we get from having a high-magic setting where some people just win the power lottery and get stuff that's just all around better than that of other people.

NekomimiRex wrote:Literally none of this post addresses the more pressing problem of 'nobody wanting to RP'


You can basically consider this whole thread to be me explaining, in great detail, why /I/ don't want to RP.

NekomimiRex wrote:Powerful individuals in the touhou setting is a problem because it just hams out any potential with the menagerie of people in Gensoukyou who are not Old Gods and Wizards of Old who have power beyond our mortal comprehension.
I mean, yeah, I don't mind playing powerful characters like Blaster Master Marisa and such, but there's no love these days for people like Kogasa who aren't going to make a big splash in the RP, but are fun to do small-time shit with.


Another good insight into the problem here. In truth, Marisa isn't even all that powerful in the context of the rest of the overall setting, but she comes across as more powerful than she is because she's very active in using her power. But regardless of where one falls on the scale, if every RP becomes a question of smacking the problem in the face over and over with the magic of the day, then it becomes very shallow.

This is the videogameyness issue. In Touhou-as-a-game, everything is solved by means of shooting magic at it, because it's a shooting game and that's all you do. As an RP, having some reason NOT to always reach for the magic is helpful because it means people actually have to be creative and do things, instead of /me casts the "advance plot" spell.

NekomimiRex wrote:When I don't even get an answer on EoP itself from people because they are blatantly avoiding it for again unspecified reasons (cxl).


This whole thread is my reason. I was busy considering these problems and how to fix them. Sorry for admin-ing.

NekomimiRex wrote:The point is I do not think we need to overhaul the entire fucking RP to make other RPs which aren't even affected by the bloated hellmass that is the setting more palatable. Shit like the RP with Marisa's Arm that can be solved with just one other fucking magician doing magic bullshit shouldn't need a rework of the entire gameworld to find a fucking solution for.


/Everything/ is affected by the setting, because everything is set in the setting, savvy?

But really, the whole issue of just one other fucking magician doing magic bullshit" is EXACTLY the kind of reason that touhou RP has become, to me, so incredibly shallow and pointless.

Effectively, what you're asking me to do, is the following:

/nick Patchouli_Knowledge
/join #Human_Village
/me resolves the plot; because magic.

Now I have actually considered what to do with that plot, and I do have some idea as to how we can go about resolving it, but the point stands that if we want more touhou RP, touhou needs to stop feeling like a videogame and start feeling like an actual part of the context within which RP exists.

EoP is an RP, not a text-adventure game.
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Re: The horrible mess that is EoP's current setting

Postby Firefluff » Tue Jun 09, 2015 2:31 pm

I can agree heavily with the whole Outside World power scaling mess. The fact that I ~had~ to have Marisa lose an arm just to go outside the barrier is kind of ridiculous, as is the fact that the only way Outside World RP is interesting is if your character is on the top end of the power scale so that they're actually relevant.


To be fair, that wasn't necessarily because of the powerscale in the outside world, that was Marisa getting shot with anti-air ordinance because she was basically a human shaped missile leaving the quarantined zone. Y'know... guns, those things that exist in real life.

Anyway, now that that is out of the way, I do agree that solving the issue of /me does magic and everyone's problems are solved forever! would definitely help my motivation to actually do things. Most of the time, the reason i don't RP is one of two things... sometimes both. Basically, my sleep schedule is like, the exact opposite of a normal person. I sleep during the day (tending to sleep around 9 or 10 AM) and wake up around 9 or 10 PM. Otherwise, I'm up for about 24 hours or so, and too dead to do anything anyway. The other reason is that the RP just hasn't been really rewarding, and I think that fixing the context of the RP's actions might make me a bit more inclined to actually do things.

You can take all this in whatever way that you want, but... yeah.
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Re: The horrible mess that is EoP's current setting

Postby NekomimiRex » Tue Jun 09, 2015 2:55 pm

Well then I might as well retcon the Marisa Arm mess too if it's just going to have a boring ending because gee whiz, it doesn't even matter at this point apparently.

Maybe I'm just a little mad because I've been sitting around EoP for around two straight months with nothing happening, and only now is ~the reason~ revealed, which might not even have a solution for another god knows, like with the forum, the wiki, and like every other important plot in the RP, I half expect nothing to ever actually finish, and by the time it has everyone else has stopped caring and left.

Sometimes I don't know why I bother, it feels like, but then I remember there's no touhou RP anywhere else that's interesting, either
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Re: The horrible mess that is EoP's current setting

Postby cxl » Tue Jun 09, 2015 4:40 pm

cxl wrote:I have actually considered what to do with that plot, and I do have some idea as to how we can go about resolving it


Do I actually type words? Like, when I press keys, and see letters and stuff appear on my screen, is it actually something that other people can understand? Or do I just think it's words but really I'm creating abstract ASCII-art rendered entirely in wingdings?

My whole point, that I seem to have to keep reiterating over and over, is that things could be interesting if only we could get away from the videogame-esque notion of simply having a spell directly tailored to, and working for, every damn situation. Does anyone actually labour under the notion that "cast magic missile to kill stuff", "cast healing to replenish your HP", "cast advance-the-bloody-plot to move stuff along" makes for an interesting RP? These gamish notions work for games because there is some kind of system mediating what you can do at any given time. Should I just say "fuck the setting" and assign every character some HP and Mana pools and we can all roll D10s for RP from here on out? Everyone can kill each other off for XP until someone wins EoP and then we can all go do something else with our time?

Touhou as part of EoP's setting was never actually turned into an RP setting. It was assumed, and those assumptions have filtered out into everything else and created boring RP. Virtually half the community has already agreed on this point. Does anyone honestly want boring RP? (Of course not, what everyone wants is to be the star of their own fucking show and piss down the neck of anyone or anything they don't like. Because get-fucked-you-asscrab if you commit the sin of having any interests that you don't share with me, and my RP is best RP, and I'm just going to sit here moaning and groaning daily until people grow a brain and stop fucking disagreeing with me! /me overcomes the burden of irony and implies a godsdamned sarcasm tag here.) It's easy to sit behind the keyboard and hurl criticism, but big-fucking-surprise actually trying to make something work requires effort, yet whenever people are expected to enact such effort they much rather point fingers and bitch and moan about what they don't like, and then when nothing gets done and the people who did fuck up so badly as to dare to try get fed up and decide to do something else, because shocker, EoP isn't an actual job and doesn't pay and the only possible thing we could get out of it is fun, so if we can't get that, then why bother indeed, those selfsame complainers will pitch a fit about nothing happening, completely ignorant of the fact that they drove off everyone with any kind of idea or will a long time ago with their incessant whining!

And Neko (and I'm sorry if this is going to sound harsh) but did it ever occur to you, during those two months of idling, to maybe probe at this and ask people why they didn't feel like RPing? To perhaps make some attempt to look into the problem and maybe get people to work towards a solution sooner? It's a perfectly fair thing to say that we've all fucked up by waiting as long as we have, but you're right here in the boat with us, and I don't see you holding a bucket, so I suppose we'll all get to drown as a team.

Maybe if someone had picked at this issue two months ago, the reason could have been discovered sooner, and we could have fixed all of this and gotten back to actually doing stuff by now? I know it's very easy to always wait for me to consider every problem, plan a solution, implement it, and complain if anything is not perfectly to everyone's liking, but frankly it does often feel like I'm expected to carry all of the weight around here, and all I can say is that I'm sorry I didn't have the presence of mind to look into the future, notice every potential problem, and take the time to write a complete 350 page sourcebook for the EoP RP two years ago, review it, edit it, and publish it so that everyone can buy it and know every detail about the setting and never have any problem in any way.
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Re: The horrible mess that is EoP's current setting

Postby NekomimiRex » Tue Jun 09, 2015 9:39 pm

Touhou as part of EoP's setting was never actually turned into an RP setting
Okay, I'm sorry I worded it wrongly, let me put it in more flowery terms.
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And Neko (and I'm sorry if this is going to sound harsh) but did it ever occur to you, during those two months of idling, to maybe probe at this and ask people why they didn't feel like RPing? To perhaps make some attempt to look into the problem and maybe get people to work towards a solution sooner? It's a perfectly fair thing to say that we've all fucked up by waiting as long as we have, but you're right here in the boat with us, and I don't see you holding a bucket, so I suppose we'll all get to drown as a team.
More importantly, though, fuck you. I come on every fucking day looking for an RP, and nobody even responds to me, much less says why they don't want to. I always get a sideways answer. Nobody even gives a shit about what I have to say the vast majority of the time anyway, why would you bother telling me about problems about the RP? I'm just the fuckwit who's sat around EoP for two years without getting taken seriously, without ever being included in the admin circlejerk, so why should my opinion or thoughts matter? Why should I need to know about the problem? Why should anyone give a shit about me?

I spent all day brooding over how much I'm treated like ass by everyone, in EoP, in real life, at work, everywhere. But especially fuck you for implying you care enough about me to mention exactly why you don't want to roleplay, in any topic outside of this one.
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Re: The horrible mess that is EoP's current setting

Postby cxl » Tue Jun 09, 2015 9:54 pm

NekomimiRex wrote:I'm just the fuckwit who's sat around EoP for two years without getting taken seriously, without ever being included in the admin circlejerk, so why should my opinion or thoughts matter? Why should I need to know about the problem? Why should anyone give a shit about me?


Glad you own up to being a fuckwit. Thanks for that.

But really...

> Complains about not being included in admin discussion
> isntadmin.png


> Complains about not being taken seriously
> nevergivesconstructiveinput.jpg


> Never bothers to ask about anything
> wonderswhynobodyexplainsstuff.bmp


Fuck you too, buddy.
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